I’m proud to note this post was the 2010 Classic Movie Blog Association CiMBA winning post in the category “Best Classic Movie Discussion.”
John Stangeland is author of the forthcoming book Warren William: Magnificent Scoundrel of Pre-code Hollywood
, to be published by McFarland and Company later this year.
John recently wrote a guest post for Warren-William.com, Remembering Is Hard, and at the same time consented to answer a series of questions about his book and our site’s subject, Warren William.
The first three questions come from the readers of Warren-William.com, while the final seven are from myself. Whether I asked the right questions or not John’s answers make one thing very clear—we need to get this book into our hands ASAP!
Enjoy the interview and thanks very much once more to John Stangeland.
This first question comes from Warren-William.com’s most active commenter, Jeffers:
Q: What did MGM think they wanted to do with Warren William, and why did they change their minds?
JS: Warren’s imperfect deal with MGM seems to have been a case of his wishful thinking more so than the studio changing their mind. It is doubtful that they thought of him as anything more than a "utility" player when the contract was signed. His immediate assignments to supporting roles in The Firefly and Arsene Lupin Returns (where he could have easily played the lead) indicate to me that they never intended to give him any kind of build up, but rather saw him as a character man / second lead. He was clearly blind-sided by this treatment, expecting better roles than he was getting at Warner’s towards the end. It was quickly apparent that he would not get those roles, and proceeded to leave MGM at the earliest possible opportunity.
This next one is from Tom Hodgins:
Q: I’ve always enjoyed Warren Williams’ pre-code performances (courtesy TCM) but know nothing about the man. Frequent co-star Joan Blondell’s “he was an old man even when he was a young man” comment, however, has always sounded sad to me, like he had an unlived life (aside from the considerable professional accomplishments). What is the basis of Blondell’s comment, and do you regard it as an accurate description of the man? Thanks for the opportunity to ask this question.
JS: There is no question that Warren William was the type of sober, self-controlled man that people could sometimes see as "old," but it was not an indication of a dour outlook on life. On the contrary – he was very even-tempered, but indulged in his passions with great glee. He got much of his reserved personal manner from his father and grandfather, real old-world types who followed the 19th Century model of social intercourse. Let’s also remember that by the time he came to Hollywood in 1931 he was already 37, an age then definitely considered to be "older." As to him having an unlived life, nothing could be further from the truth. Besides his service in the War where he spent time touring Paris and the French countryside, he traveled extensively in the American southwest, Mexico and often sailed both the blue Pacific and the cold Atlantic. I think he was a very satisfied man, aware of his great good fortune to have a loving wife, and a great career that allowed him to indulge his hobbies and interests as he saw fit.
And finally one more from Jeffers, which I was actually going to ask myself as well:
Q: What does he think of Bette Davis’s recollection that WW was always trying to get her into bed? Is that reportedly untypical behavior perhaps mere projection on her part? Or did her particular appeal “reach” him more irresistibly than that of other co-stars of his who, to me, would have been a lot harder to resist?
JS: The Bette Davis stories are quite problematic. First, there is no attribution to these stories in ANY Davis biography, nor any corroboration in any other book that I can find. Each bio repeats the same stories almost verbatim from her autobiography, occasionally adding facts that are impossible for even Davis herself to have known, again, without attribution. They are the ONLY stories that I encountered of such behavior, or even bad words said about Warren William. Most often he is mentioned as a quiet, professional man or barely mentioned at all – I believe that he sometimes blended into the woodwork, generally being disinterested in showy displays or actions. He was a man, however, and it is entirely possible that he had an interest in Davis that her legendary ego blew out of proportion in later years. I suppose we may never know the REAL truth of the matter.
And here come seven more questions from myself:
Q: What sort of relationship, if any, did Warren William have with his Uncle, the financier, Alvin W. Krech? The elder Krech came to New York earlier and was a patron of the arts but the few references I find linking the two seem to indicate Warren’s Uncle being disillusioned by either (or both) Warren’s desire to act and his marriage to Helen. Did either, or a combination of the two, directly lead to Warren W. Krech taking the stage name Warren William shortly after his 1923 marriage to Helen Barbara Nelson?
JS: According to my information, Warren did NOT change his name for anything other than professional reasons. Alvin Krech was an amazingly successful businessman who helped look after his 21 year old nephew when the boy moved to New York City (before Warren’s parents came east), and was a strong secondary male influence in his life. It is my belief that Warren’s character in Gold Diggers of 1933 was at least partly based on his Uncle’s sober personality. There are some other interesting connections between Alvin and his nephew that provide illuminating stories in the book. As to his interest in acting, Warren’s father and mother endorsed the idea and paid for his schooling, so I doubt that Alvin’s feelings (whatever they were) would have been of much consequence.
Q: Was it his success in The Vinegar Tree, the passing of his father, or again, both, which led to Warren William leaving the New York Stage for Hollywood?
JS: Neither had any direct influence on his signing with Warners. Warren had been trying to break into pictures for many years, and it was entirely coincidence that the test he took at that time finally led to a contract. The story of that period is very poignant, and provides strong insight into the family dynamic.
Q: From what I’ve seen from the Warner Brothers Archives relating to Warren William it appeared he could be a thorn in the side of the studio but that most of their discrepancies were settled amicably. Even his suspension appears to have been a situation more negotiated than an actual punishment served. What in your mind was the lead factor in the quality of William’s projects spiraling downward from the heights they reached during the Pre-Code era? Was it due to the shift on material, behavior related (ie: punishment) or some other factor?
JS: His decline at Warner Brothers is quite curious, and covered extensively in the book. I believe that there were a number of factors that contributed to his decline, not the least of which was his own professional apathy. Whatever troubles he had with Warner Brothers (and there were a few) came about after a long run of mistreatment that should have been addressed far earlier. Also, the simple fact is that by 1936 the image of the screen actor was changing to something entirely different than what Warren William projected. Warner Brothers must have felt far more secure with the future of Cagney, Flynn, Robinson and others than they did with him.
Q: By all period accounts Warren William mostly kept to himself and out of the Hollywood social circle except for the occasional party. Was he close to any other actors or actresses away from the studio?
JS: The person that he seems to have been closest to was Gene Lockhart, the great character actor of films like The Sea Wolf (and who Warren co-starred with in Times Square Playboy). They met on Broadway and stayed friends until Warren’s death. Gene’s daughter June (of Lost in Space fame) remembered him as "a very tall, very kind man" who often came to their house to play billiards and cards with her father. Among his other famous friends were Leslie Howard, Anna Mae Wong, Alan Dinehart and Charles Laughton.
Q: Are there any Harry Cohn stories from his time at Columbia?
JS: Oh, I wish there were. The Columbia records are tough to access, sadly. There is one amusing story concerning director Andre De Toth’s work on Counter Espionage, but I’ll leave that one to the book…
Q: There appears to be a definite literary bent to the last few films Warren William chose to appear in: Strange Illusion and it’s Hamlet similarities, Fear being a more or less direct retelling of Dostoevsky’s Crime and Punishment, and Bel Ami based on Maupassant; was this by design and is it an indication of the type of projects Warren William would have continued to choose had he lived longer? (Did he have any pending screen projects?)
JS: I suppose that the literary pedigree of those final films must have appealed to Warren, but it was not really an active choice on his part. At the time those projects were all he had offered to him. In the mid-to-late 40’s there were a few possibilities to return to the stage that did not happen, plus the radio drama US Postal Inspector that never got past the pilot (presumably because of his illness). There was also a starring role in a big budget film that was scuttled by a first-time producer’s ineptitude, but those final years were not really productive for him. Again, more about why in the book.
Q: Your previous essay for Warren-William.com, Remembering Is Hard, really showed us why you undertook this project and what you thought of William’s career. After spending so much time in William’s world what are your final thoughts on him as a person? Did you like him?
JS: After all this time, I feel very close to Warren William. The more I learned about him, the more I liked him, and that helped spur the project along. He was apparently a very sincere, humble, decent person who truly never let Hollywood go to his head. In this age of entitlement, ego and self-absorption, I find his lack of star temperament very endearing. With everything I’ve seen and heard, I have the feeling that I would have found him a good and loyal friend, intelligent and interesting – just a simple Minnesota boy with a very public career.
Thanks very much, John! Warren William: Magnificent Scoundrel of Pre-code Hollywood
Available on Amazon for just $2.99 -
Thank you, Cliff and John! This takes the edge off my IMMEDIATE appetite for information while whetting my long-term cravings for MUCH more of it.
Interesting to know WW was so close to the Lockharts and is still remembered by June. I remember commenting here that I had seen “The Mouthpiece” and “Times Square Playboy” together and enjoyed them both about equally–a disclosure in the face of which you (Cliff) somehow maintained a discreet silence–but WW gave such a marvelously likable and engaged performance in this innocuous trifle that it reminded me of some of the most enduring and iconic “likable” stars (e.g., Cary Grant). Maybe his friendship with the Lockharts, his interest in working with them in a vehicle with a showcase role for Gene, partly accounts for that engagement?
The only-too-prolific commenter Jeffers never expected to take on that role (if so, I probably would have picked a different sobriquet), but feels like a supernumerary in a low-budget stage production, representing by suggestion the reality of all those OTHER zestfully engaged readers whose lives are just too full to allow much time for commenting!
I liked Times Square Playboy, Jeffers (though it’s no Mouthpiece!) … and actually it’s on the short list for a review very soon. I might even pop it up before the final Perry Mason just to break things up–in fact, since I know you’ll throw in your two cents I’ll say with certainty that Times Square Playboy will be my next WW-review … I just won’t say when.
Thanks for submitting the questions, hey, keep the comments coming, I try to respond to them all though in some cases there isn’t very much I can add.
Hi,
I just wanted to thank you for this site, I have been a WW fan ever since I first saw him on TCM (I think the picture must have been “Beauty and the Boss”)- he’s such a unique presence and it’s wonderful that he’s finally getting more recognition these days. Looking forward to reading Mr Stangeland’s biography too.
It’s too bad that I found your blog as late as this. I’ve been a WW partisan for years, since my intro with Gold Diggers of 1933 and Employee’s Entrance back in the VHS days. Enjoy reading your posts very much and looking forward to more.
Alexis and mndean,
Thanks so much for stopping by and saying hi, glad I could have this waiting for you!
Alexis, I can’t wait for John’s book, it should answer a lot of questions.
mndean, Employees Entrance and Skyscraper Souls on VHS were my intro to WW too!
Thanks again,
Cliff
Interesting, informative interview!
Cliff,
I didn’t even have TCM until I got cable two years ago, and yet I’ve seen a lot of WW, trading with a friend for WW-starring films recorded off past TCM airings, and recently ordering Under 18 and Beauty and the Boss. I don’t have a number of his films yet (your nom de blog being one, and most of the Lone Wolf series). I still have my Employee’s Entrance tape (it sits aside Blessed Event on my highly-watched shelf). The only real disappointments I’ve seen are the films which don’t use his talents, and where he could be any leading man. Yes, that means I like Satan Met A Lady.
Interesting! I did enjoy Satan Met A Lady, but Bette Davis was so annoying. Such attitude and overacting. WW did a fantastic job in this film. It must have been hard to be as completely natural as he was here (and in everything else of his I’ve seen) when he had Ms. Davis’ nonsense to contend with.
I find myself imagining Bette Davis on the set of Satan Met a Lady, complaining to no one in particular that she never gets enough sleep. Our Hero volunteers that he’s come up with a way to sleep very comfortably while being driven to work. BD responds that she doesn’t want to start the day sleeping in the back seat even of a limo. WW replies, “No, I’ve got a van with an actual bed in back. It’s terrific! Would you like to see it?” BD, based on past experiences with men, or even with WW (but solely in his screen roles), thinks she knows where this is heading and brusquely demurs. But she still complains from day to day that she never gets enough sleep, and WW still offers to show her his van-with-a-bed and even let her try it for herself. And so a legend is born …
I like your scenario!
Interesting bit from one of the Kay Francis biographies, “I Can’t Wait To Be Forgotten:”
“During the filming of “Dark Victory,” Davis was able to consummate a long sought-after affair with George Brent. But, the Davis-Brent romance abruptly ended after Brent listed the ten most glamorous women in Hollywood. He included Kay, Greta Garbo, Norma Shearer, Loretta Young, Marlene Dietrich, among others, and Davis blew her top when left off Brent’s list. Harmless stuff, but it was all over for Bette and George after that.”
This tidbit, as well as other things I’ve read, lead me to believe that Ms. Davis’ remarks about WW’s “interest,” in her were pure fabrication. Or perhaps her own wishes that she blamed on him. Davis was always after Claude Rains, as well. She asked him why if he married “all those women,” that he never married her. Mr. Rains, being a gentleman, never replied.
Jeffers, your scenario regarding the William / Davis “feud” certainly seems plausible, although her original irritation with him dates from a time well before he built his rolling apartment – as far back as The Dark Horse, in fact. From what I read she really was a genuine pain on film sets, and with an enormous ego that often detected threats and intrigues where there were none. This is not to say that it is absolutely impossible that Warren was “interested,” but if that was true more than likely it was blown FAR out of proportion…
I knew that my flight of fancy was untethered to actual knowledge of the chronology involved. Thanks for the facts!
Warren William was one of the most handsome men in Hollywood, with or without his moustaches (but especially with them). He could have been another John Gilbert or Clark Gable. In fact, I can easily imagine him as Rhett Butler.
Welcome, Stuffed Animal, glad you found us!
Hmm, not sure I’m willing to go as far as Rhett Butler, but I love your enthusiasm!
Thanks again, I hope you enjoyed the site and come back soon. I try to add one or two posts per month.
Cliff
It’s heresy, I know, but what about Warren taking over for Barrymore in “Beau Brummel”? I watched it recently, and it would seem tailor made for him…
When is the book coming out?
Hi Doreen,
The latest update I’ve seen from John on his Facebook page indicates that he expects sometime in November. Pretty sure this is public, so you can see the details here.
Thanks, Cliff
Yup, Cliff – I just mailed in the proofs and the index on October 12th. I think there’s a slim possibility that it could be out by late October, but early November is a better guess. Will definitely update everyone where there is something concrete…
Thanks for the update, John! I think it probably goes without saying, but I’d imagine anyone reading this space is anxiously awaiting Magnificent Scoundrel’s release!
I’ll be taking the day to read Magnificent Scoundrel upon the arrival of my copy and hope to have a review posted over here within 24 hours of that time. Can’t wait!
Yikes! Amazon just canceled my pre-order for the book! I hope this doesn’t mean McFarland is bailing on it.
Hi Jeffers — Actually I had the same email from Amazon in my inbox right before this comment from you, so I’m in the same boat. I have a feeling this might just be a case of them posting the release date too soon, a certain number of days passing and then these cancellations triggering. From what John Stangeland has said recently on his Facebook page and in comments here, everything is moving along at an expected pace and he’s expecting a release sooner than later. I’ll drop him an email though so he knows about this.
Same email. I did check the McFarland site and there’s no indication that it’s not coming out.
Cliff, should we order now from McFarland or wait for Amazon to get it? I’m concerned with getting you that credit for ordering from the link. Please post something about that.
Sorry I’ve been so silent for awhile. It’s been chaotic and too busy in my regular life.
Jeffers, you asked it I managed to get the WW films from Casablanca before the crackdown. Very thankfully – yes. In fact, I bought them all. For once, I didn’t procrastinate and it paid off.
Cliff, I really haven’t forgotten about sending you that Kay bio that I mentioned.
I imagine you are right, Cliff, but I have a calendar on order whose release date keeps changing, and a book whose release was postponed from 2009 until well into 2011, and, while I am asked to approve delays, I’ve never had an order canceled unilaterally by Amazon due to publishing delays before. So I think McFarland must have been VERY negligent about cluing Amazon into what was going on with their schedule, if that is indeed what is going on.
Dr. Monica, I’m so glad you got your items from Casablanca, as I thought you probably had. (I’ve never dealt with a prompter shipper than the dealer behind that site, apart from the clearly pre-announced times he was out of the country.)
Jeffers, Dr. Monica — I’ve been in contact with John and he assures me that MacFarland has assured him it’s just a clerical error. In fact based on what John said I don’t want to be too specific but I’m led to believe soon is now actually VERY soon.
Dr. M — not sure where you should order from, I’m pretty much always an Amazon guy so I’ll probably try them again. Yeah, I’ve probably lost any commissions I had coming but more importantly I wouldn’t be surprised if John had lost a few sales over this confusion–I hope Amazon alerts everyone to updated availability once they’ve been straightened out. Hopefully in the end a whole bunch of books get sold 🙂 I’d imagine Christmas will help out big time. So I’d say re-order wherever you’re comfortable though, of course, if you’re using Amazon I’d be very appreciative if you went through the ad I have on the sidebar. That said, it’s not the end of the world if you don’t.
Dr. Monica — Don’t worry about it, been very busy on my end too as the lack of posts here and the slow-down of posts on my other site go to prove. I forgot even to bid on those couple of WW pics you’d alerted me to, oh well! Take your time with the Kay book, I understood when you mentioned it that it could be a long while so I’m in no rush–I just had bios of Mae Clarke and Janet Gaynor arrive so my reading room is occupied for a bit anyway. It was very kind of you to offer in the first place! Here’s hoping life calms down soon!
Cliff
Good news; thanks, Cliff. You know, I’m not sure I clicked through this site when I placed my original preorder; I won’t forget this time! (I wonder what will happen to the preorder price guarantee on these wantonly canceled, soon to be reinstituted preorders?)
I’ll definitely re-order from the link here but the question is when will Amazon permit it? I’ve never had this happen before. Guess we’ll have to look for updates ourselves – both here and on Amazon. It’s frustrating.
Well, it’s back! (Just in case anyone checked here before checking Amazon …)
Heard from John Stangeland on Monday the 25th — McFarland confirmed to him that his book moved to the press room, Amazon has once again made the title available for pre-order and that it will likely ship in the next 7-10 days.
Congratulations on winning a CiMBA for this blog post.
— Java
Thanks Java! I just updated the post with the CiMBA logo at the top.
Cliff –
Congrats on the CiMBA! I’m so happy that the Warren William community is growing. As to the book, it came off the press last Wednesday (the 27th), and is now available “for immediate shipping” through McFarland. (It’s so new that I haven’t even gotten my copies yet!) Amazon and Barnes & Noble might take a LITTLE longer to get it into their system, but it is published. I believe B&N has it for 10% off…
Just finished the Stangeland bio. Shocked to know that when met at Lassie display in Vegas June Lockhart 2002 and I asked her had she ever heard of the, “Times Square Playboy?” She said, “Sure, but don’t remember as I last saw it as a little girl.” I told her I had copy off TCM, sent it to her with long letter telling her how I tried as young student at ADAA trying to lose my southern accent decades ago by taping and listening to the only WW film then on TV, his brilliant interchange with Blondell where he and old real life vulgar drunk Kibbee barge into the apt and WW mistakes Blondell for who else? Polly Parker. At that time attended screening of BUZZ dance number “lullaby of Broadway” Winnie Shaw was there and had no idea she was in several WW pics. She died couple of years later in 1974 but looked good. I rapped with June a few minutes and told her my mother now 91 insisted I take her to Hollywood for the Zorro Guy Williams rememberance and because she was in the space series with Guy, her letter of bad health reasons for not attending was read. Can not believe she never told me she knew WW or that her father and WW were close friends. I told her that her father and mother had prominent roles in this movie, which certainly was the only time as they had bits separately or bits together “Christmas Carol.” I even had the death wrong as Marian Marsh said late in life that WW had a heart attack hard from over exercising but she was not sure. Marsh was nice, but anyone bedded by Howard Hughes in a plane can not be the brightest apple on the tree. Just got in cat fight with Buzz bio author that insists it was B. Grable in the wedding bells scene in “Whoopee.” Grable may be in flick but it is unmistakenly Marsh following bride. Anyway, great book, and long over due. WW had the power and delivery that still fascinates me over decades. Can anyone imagine Tom Cruise in “Emloyees Entrance” Favorite quote. “So tell, us with out any phonus bolonus, did you kill my partner Ames or someone else.” No one but me likes “Satan” and the gags. Also, nothing has changed in this world. Listen to WW tell Kibbee at the bar reading the paper, “Gamy, Barnum and Bailey, ballyhoo, give them a 3 ring circus and they will not even stop to think>” Great quote and WW delivers it with such clarity. Glad Stangel bio discounts WW sex interest in BDavis. Does BDavis really think she was that pretty when he was working along such dishes as Marian Marsh? Sacralegious not to devour this book immediately if you admire WW, my favorite actor.